Scoring of Triangle race: Do competitors need SkyNAV SW, or can any GPS logger work?

[pchewn]

I am interested in trying out GPS racing and have downloaded the SkyNav manuals, but I don't think I'll be buying this.

Instead, I will soon be able to log GPS data on my Android phone using FRSKY sensor and telemetry as part of 2.4GHZ radio system. (Along with display of useful info similar to SkyNav program).

My questions are:

1) Is SkyNav actually required for racing, or can any GPS logging system be used for scoring?
2) Is there a scoring program that is used, and what are the log-file requirements for entry into the scoring program? (I assume IGC file format?)
3) Could someone upload a sample log file here so that I can see format, or point me to a format specification? (Not necessary if using IGC format, as I am familiar with that.)
4) For a typical contest, what method is used to transfer the log file to the scoring system? ("sneakernet" by carrying a USB stick or SD card, USB cord, serial port, wireless network, ????)

Thanks, and I hope to get practicing soon and meet some of you at triangle race events. (e.g. Montague).

[yyz]

See my comments in-lined, below.

I am interested in trying out GPS racing and have downloaded the SkyNav manuals, but I don't think I'll be buying this.

Instead, I will soon be able to log GPS data on my Android phone using FRSKY sensor and telemetry as part of 2.4GHZ radio system. (Along with display of useful info similar to SkyNav program).

My questions are:

1) Is SkyNav actually required for racing, or can any GPS logging system be used for scoring?

In Europe, yes. In the United States, not yet but most of people that are learning to fly GPS triangle-style courses are using SkyNav. It's not that much money and it gives you everything you need to get started. Currently, you need to have a Windows Mobile PDA to run it on but I've heard rumors that that may change.

My feeling is that if you can record the NMEA sentences coming from the GPS and turn those logs into IGC files, that's good enough. Remember, you'll need some way of knowing whether you have started the course below the maximum entry height and below the maximum speed. You'll also need some way to know whether you've "made" a turnpoint. SkyNav gives you all of that information. Is it perfect? No. Good enough for learning? Sure.

2) Is there a scoring program that is used, and what are the log-file requirements for entry into the scoring program? (I assume IGC file format?)

If you can generate an IGC file, you're good to go.


3) Could someone upload a sample log file here so that I can see format, or point me to a format specification? (Not necessary if using IGC format, as I am familiar with that.)

Follow the IGC spec and you'll be fine.


4) For a typical contest, what method is used to transfer the log file to the scoring system? ("sneakernet" by carrying a USB stick or SD card, USB cord, serial port, wireless network, ????)

All of the above. In Europe I believe the formal method is to hand the contest scorer the flash drive from your PDA. Again, if you can get an IGC file to a scorer using any means possible, that's probably good enough for the current level of competition in the US. It's still very experimental and people are learning as they go.

Thanks, and I hope to get practicing soon and meet some of you at triangle race events. (e.g. Montague).

If you put together a GPS triangle event in Oregon, I bet a bunch of us would come up for it!

Mike

[pchewn]

OK, that is about what I expected. I am writing code right now to do the approximate equivalent of SKYNAV, but using an Android phone and using FRSKY telementry system in the airplane.

[yyz]

OK, that is about what I expected. I am writing code right now to do the approximate equivalent of SKYNAV, but using an Android phone and using FRSKY telementry system in the airplane.

Fantastic. One thing that SkyNav doesn't have is audio guidance to the turnpoints. I could envision something like the Android voicing "Left to course 10" meaning you are 10 degrees off the direct line to the turnpoint by 10 degrees to the right. Something like that would make practicing by yourself much easier.

[pchewn]

Actually it sounds like this:

"Height 550. 65 meters. Left 50."

(Height is 550 meters above ground at "home" position. 65 meters to the turnpoint. Turn left 50 degrees to reach the turnpoint.)

[sjaa]

That sounds great pchewn, I'll follow this one with interest.

Another route that I hope someone will catch the interest for is to use the Weatronic bluetooth module to transfer gps data to an android/iphone/ipad app. Would make for a lower entry level to the triangle racing, utilizing telemetry rather than adding another transmitter on board.

Jo

[pchewn]

My system looks like this:

1) Sensors (Vario/Alt, GPS) both from FRSKY [Purchased $40 for GPS, $10 for Alt/Vario]
2) Sensor Hub (from FRSKY) [Purchased $17]
3) Aircraft receiver ( FRSKY 2.4GHz telemetry-enabled, i.e. with built-in link back to Tx module) [Purchased $30]

4) Tx module (FRSKY) [Purchased $25]
5) Serial port from Tx module (built in)
6) Serial port-to-bluetooth adapter [Purchased $15]
7) Bluetooth on Android phone (built in)
8) Custom app written for Android phone "Appasoarus" (Soaring application) [Labor to build]

I would say the purchased items are around $150, and it also provides RC Tx module and RC receiver. Extremely low cost for hardware.

Building SW and being able to test in flying conditions will take about 6 weeks or so ........

[yyz]

How frequently are you getting position reports (NMEA GGA messages) from the GPS?

[RickS]

My questions are:

1) Is SkyNav actually required for racing, or can any GPS logging system be used for scoring?
2) Is there a scoring program that is used, and what are the log-file requirements for entry into the scoring program? (I assume IGC file format?)
3) Could someone upload a sample log file here so that I can see format, or point me to a format specification? (Not necessary if using IGC format, as I am familiar with that.)
4) For a typical contest, what method is used to transfer the log file to the scoring system? ("sneakernet" by carrying a USB stick or SD card, USB cord, serial port, wireless network, ????)

1) SkyNav is not required, but you will need to be able to see where the aircraft is relative to the course in real time. You will also need to be able to create a course within the software that is identical to the course that everyone else is flying.

2) There is a scoring program that is used in Europe but I have not seen it here. It is not really necessary yet since we do not have that many people competing.

3) Log file attached. It originally was listed as a log file but I changed the extension to txt so I could upload it. It still looks the same.

4) When the scoring program is being used, the data is transferred from the Ipaq to the scoring laptop via SD card. We also use the SD card to transfer the course to everyone's Ipaq.

Rick

[pchewn]

How frequently are you getting position reports (NMEA GGA messages) from the GPS?

Once per second.